Rick Yvanovich - Discovering your mission

And we'll link to that conversation in the show notes. And so both Rick and I were super excited about doing another conversation where we can maybe expand upon some of the main points from the original chat and bring you more great insights. So Rick, welcome. It's really great having you back on the podcast. Do you want to add anything or should we just dive right into our conversation? 

Rick Yvanovich: Tim, well, first, thanks for having me back. I must have done something right. Or you're really hard up and you can't find any more guests. Anyway, before we start, I really have to again share my core belief, something I hold really, really dear. And that's the fact that we all have the potential to be architects of change. I know I talked about this last time, but maybe some of your listeners have forgotten, or maybe it's the first time you're listening. Okay, so I'll repeat it. We all have the potential to be architects of change.

So in this era where we all live in on planet Earth, which is defined by constant transformation, our task isn't just to keep up, you know, try to keep our head above water, but to actively shape the path forward. Okay? Every day, our actions, big or small, actually shape our future. And as we discuss other stuff today Tim, it might be old stuff, which we're going to go into again, or it could be new stuff.

I still want everyone listening to remember this. You are your brand and every single decision that you make is part of the unique story that you are crafting for yourself. Okay, and it's not just listeners. It's me as well, Rick. It's me, Rick. And it's also you, Tim. Okay, so how you react, how you adapt, and how you innovate in the face of change will define your story and your legacy.

And it's this belief that is inspiring each of us. I believe each of us are really aiming for a consistently higher achievement. Okay. I said that last time, but it's not just a higher achievement. It's also higher fulfillment. Okay. Is the cornerstone of my work and my life purpose. That's where I'm coming from.

So. As we dive into our conversation today, let's not just think about adapting to change, but about how we can define it. All right. And after all, as we embrace our unique qualities and strive for that personal growth, we're not just participants, but catalysts. Ever changing business as unusual world. So Tim, let's get started and to get started before you can say anything.

All right. You introduced me. I have a few questions about you. So could I ask you a few questions, Tim? 

Tim Butara: Oh, we're going to turn the tables this time. Oh, okay. I love that, Rick. I'm totally up for that.  

Rick Yvanovich: I looked at your LinkedIn profile again. And I know you work for this company Agiledrop, okay, you're a podcast host.

Yes, you are hosting me here for the second time, maybe. But you're also the content and community manager. So can you tell me a little bit more about that? Because I'm really curious on why you're even hosting this podcast in the first place when you're the content and community manager? 

Tim Butara: Well, that's a great question, Rick. And there's quite a story behind it. Originally, you know, we were heavily involved, as Agiledrop, in different open source communities namely Drupal and WordPress which we're still active in, especially Drupal, but WordPress less so now. And I was doing a lot of interviews with like community members about their experiences with these open source platforms.

I was participating in like, I was contributing in my own free time to the Promote Drupal initiative. I was also for a time, I was part of the WordPress marketing contribution initiative. So that was kind of the community management aspect of it. And then, then it was also like for a time, I was also more responsible for the HR part of our marketing.

So kind of building the communities in our local area and kind of attracting local developers here and organizing events and meetups and courses and stuff like that, and then from, you know, we started doing, I mentioned that we were doing interviews. and they were originally written interviews, but we figured that it was easier for the guests for if we were to record the interview and then edit it as an article.

And we started to notice more and more that actually people were kind of disappointed when, when we told them that, you know, this is going to be an article and not a podcast that was in 2020. And so I figured, you know, a lot of people that we're interviewing are actually really keen on doing the podcast and being podcast guests.

So why not start a podcast? You know, why not do it? Because everybody's working from home. They have the time to listen to it. They want, you know, everybody wants good quality content. So if you get good quality guests and produce good quality conversations, there's going to be a win win for everybody. And so we decided that we wanted to do a more, more broader, technological business leadership angle rather than just focus strictly on like the stuff that we posted on our blog about Drupal and about web development.

So that's how the original idea for agile digital transformation came to be. And yeah, here we are now almost four years later and about 130 episodes later and still going strong. 

Rick Yvanovich: Wow. Wow, okay, two things that you mentioned triggered the next two questions The first one is you said you got more involved in the hr part of marketing I didn't quite understand that. What does that mean? 

Tim Butara: So we, our marketing is kind of split into two parts. So one part is the sales oriented marketing. So the client side marketing, and then, then the other part of the marketing is, you know, concentrated on communicating our values, communicating what the business is like and, you know, producing maybe blog posts that are more HR oriented, organizing these events and courses that were also kind of, you know, it's not that the goal was to, you know, we were organizing the courses to get

employees, but it was like a really great way to, you know, both provide learning opportunities for people who would not get them otherwise, everything was free. And then, you know, we met a lot of great people from the courses that, you know, some of them joined our team or some of them collaborated with us later on.

So that's what the HR part was kind of all about. And there was probably more stuff, but that was a long time ago. And we've done a lot of different, different stuff since then. 

Rick Yvanovich: Okay. All right. I'd probably classify that myself as employer branding. 

Tim Butara: That's a good way of putting it. 

Rick Yvanovich: So, you know you do all these activities, it's not directly related to trying to market or sell anything, but it's just positioning yourselves, positioning your organization, which is Agiledrop into be just a good place to be.

Tim Butara: That's the gist of it. Yeah. 

Rick Yvanovich: Okay. Now, another thing you said you know, things have changed. You started off in this sort of community role and content and was interviewing people and writing articles and then you said people got disappointed, what was an article, you know you know, and, and the podcast thing emerged. So is that, I know it's an evolution, it's a transformation over the last, you know, four years or so. Was that a smooth journey? 

Tim Butara: Well..

Rick Yvanovich: Or have there been a few disasters along the way? 

Tim Butara: Well, disasters is maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but obviously, as with, you know, as with everything in the digital, with all the moving parts and all the changes in society, in the tech landscape, everything coinciding with personal changes and personal developments and self actualization and personal growth.

I mean, taking all of this into account, I must say that it's been rather smooth, actually, you know, that there was some personal difficulties lately that were making it a little more difficult and a little more stressful. But, you know, I'm really committed to having a high degree of professionalism of providing a great experience for everybody.

And so I always try to put that first. But yeah, that maybe comes at the cost of like some potential burnout issues or something like that. So then it's always, you know, it's never smooth. It's never completely smooth, but I would say that given, given all of the context and all of the different aspects and elements that I just mentioned, it could have been much less smoother.

Rick Yvanovich: Okay. All right. Now, what do you like best about what you actually are doing? 

Tim Butara: Oh, well, Rick, it's connecting with people like you and having awesome conversations with people like you and also connecting people. You know, one of the best things is like when, when a guest of the podcast tells me that, oh yeah, I really love this episode that you did with another guest.

And then maybe we can do some collaboration involving both of the guests. And you know, it's just, I love connecting with people and I love connecting people. And I think that this is like in line with my life mission and my life purpose. And if I can do it like as part of Agiledrop, then that's awesome.

Rick Yvanovich: Oh, okay. You talk about if it's in alignment with your, your life purpose. Okay. So can I ask you, if you don't mind, what is your life purpose? 

Tim Butara: Well, I've actually just discovered this recently. It was also in connection with my castle that we discussed during the first conversation that we had. And you asked me if I can describe my castle to you.

And I told you, I promised you that I'll do it next time. So maybe we can revisit that. But I discovered that it was just that, you know, it's connecting people and connecting, making connections in the face of adversity, you know, connecting with people that, you know, you may disagree on some really, really important issues or, or important points, but trying to go beyond that, you know, and trying to kind of see the humanity in everybody and, and also give your own humanity to others and just, just be, you know, be what you needed when times were really dark for you and try to be that for other people. 

Rick Yvanovich: Beautiful. So if you had to condense that into a single sentence, what would your life purpose be? 

Tim Butara: I guess, be the lighthouse for everyone. 

Rick Yvanovich: Oh, the lighthouse. Oh, I like that. Why a lighthouse? What made you pick lighthouse over any other structure?

Tim Butara: Well, it's something that stands tall even when, you know, that stands tall and is like a beacon for everybody who is lost. And people who are lost like in dark times when they need the light the most. So that's why you know, because if I just said be the light that would not be, that would be too broad I think, so be the lighthouse, be the beacon that can help guide people out of their darkness, out of their storms, out of their their you know... What's the word I'm looking for, like shipwreck or something like that. 

Rick Yvanovich: Okay, and now this your life purpose has become more clear to you as a result of the the previous conversation we had on our last last podcast and you think about your castle. How has it affected your life since then since you've come up with this?

Tim Butara: It's been you know, sometimes it's been difficult having to accept that and, you know maybe having to put some, some other desires and needs on the, on the backtrack to kind of focus on this, but it's also been very fulfilling knowing what to do and how to do it. And then as you do it, you get confirmation that you're on the right track, that you're doing, that you're doing well.

You know, I, one of the things that I did very, very closely or very shortly after we recorded our first conversation was, we were supposed to have our high school reunion, like the 10th anniversary of our, of our graduation in 2021. So during the heaviest lockdowns. And of course we skipped it, but we started hanging out with some, with some friends from high school, like in the past few years.

And I just spontaneously organized like a spontaneous high school reunion after 13, 12 years. And it was like, you know, one Thursday we were like, oh yeah, let's do it. And then the next Thursday we already met. And, you know, that was kind of in line with that. I saw that, you know, I wasn't maybe the most popular kid in the class.

I wasn't the most popular kid at school, it was, I,that was the initiator of, you know, this reunion that we completely skipped. And that's, that's when I really realized that, you know, this like that's before I kind of started realizing it, but that's when it was confirmed to me that, yes, this is what your life should be about.

You know, connecting people. And even when it's tough, even if it's sometimes, you know, if, if things were so things were happening at such a, such a frantic pace, even though there were good things, it was kind of leading to burnout. I still had that satisfaction, I still had that fulfillment, even though I needed rest, even though I needed a break from everything, it was still, it's still very fulfilling to know what the purpose is, even if it's tough, because... if it's tough, you know, you can't expect life to be easy. It's going to get tough and you'll have to overcome adversities. And if you're doing it while knowing that you're on the right path, then it's that much worth it. 

Rick Yvanovich: Yeah. Now compare that if you were on the wrong path, you know, it's not an alignment, then you don't have that extra energy.

So this is also the concept you know, around flow. Yeah. Okay you know when you're in the zone, you know, when things you're doing in alignment you find that extra energy. It doesn't matter if you're a little bit tired. It's it's irrelevant, you know, it's no different for oh, yeah, we're gonna have to get up early, yeah, that's because we're going to fly, get on a plane and we're going to fly to some nice beach somewhere.

Yeah. Okay. So what? Let's do it. Okay. You know so all, it all makes sense. And that's why the alignment is, so, so important. Now, how, how did your schoolmates react when you, you self described yourself? You weren't the most popular person. Okay. And here are arranging a get together. 

Tim Butara: Well, it was, it was surprisingly awesome because in retrospect, I saw that maybe I was kind of more popular and more loved than I thought initially.

Maybe I just had like a poor, poor self confidence during that time. Basically, you know, I got so much love from my classmates, from my former classmates during that, that meetup, you know, everybody was giving me love. They were, they were toasting me basically. And one of the, one of the former classmates who was probably one of the most popular kids in class, he asked me, Tim, are you a genius? Because I always thought that you were a genius. Because, you know, and, and, you know, I remembered everybody's birthday, like to, to the exact date. 

So we had a really great time. Everybody was, was like thankful for, you know, everybody was thanking me for organizing it, for contacting them. And even though I had a lot of help from another classmate who contacted like half of the class, he gave me full credit for the idea and everything, so it was really, really well received. And I, I just, you know, the only regret I have was not staying longer because I was super tired and I just wanted to, you know, I wanted to get together, then I had to go home and get some rest. 

Rick Yvanovich: Okay, that sounds wonderful. Okay what I also heard there is that people there like that most what you you know that person that you saw as one of the most popular kids as it were came up to you and saying it they always you know, they sort of believed in you.

All right. And yet earlier, you know, you say you, you framed all of this saying that you weren't one of the most popular kids. So you did not believe in yourself. 

Tim Butara: Yeah. I think I had a lot of problems with believing in myself that, and that kind of persisted, you know, up until a few years ago, and it was actually through this self actualization process and through the realization of what my life purpose is, and that I got this drive and this self confidence back.

And, and, you know, and then I started to realize how, how to put it bluntly, how stupid it was that I didn't have the self confidence before, but it was a journey, I guess, you know, I think that I did a lot of stuff in the past years that I've, that I can really say that I'm proud of, you know, I'm really proud of, of organizing this meetup. I'm proud of doing, you know, 130 successful episodes of the podcast. I'm proud of connecting with people like you and having awesome conversations with people like you. And it's just kind of, you know, I've kind of built myself up, I think. 

Rick Yvanovich: So it goes back to, you know, the, the importance when we touched on that last time, and it's in the book or the importance of having a life purpose. So it's a bit, yeah, you, you've used the lighthouse. Yeah. It's showing you the way, like, don't go that way. You're going to hit the rocks and you're, you're a ship, you know, you need to go this other way. All right, so it is sort of lighting the path making the path clearer and as long as you know where you're going then it's just easy to get there. You don't know where you're going like, you know Alice or the cheshire cat said to Alice, but if you don't know where you're going then any road will do. 

Now, the, the other thing, I'll go back to the, the, this fact that other people saw something in you, and they even mentioned to you at that event, hey, you know, we always saw this in you, and yet you didn't have that, that self confidence. Another way to reframe that is a bit like imposter syndrome. 

Tim Butara: Yeah. 

Rick Yvanovich: You have the skill sets, but you don't think you have the skill sets. You don't think you can do it, but you obviously have it in spades. I mean, 135 episodes. You've created this podcast, you know, it's all successful. Do you think you've overcome now?

Any, any shadows left from imposter syndrome and not being able, not believing in yourself? 

Tim Butara: I think there's always going to be shadows when, when the going gets a bit tougher, or, and also I had a really great conversation recently on the podcast about, you know, if you have imposter syndrome, that means that you're surrounded by people who are more, more skilled than you and who are able to teach you a lot of invaluable lessons that people who are less, so if you didn't have imposter syndrome, there would be less growth and less, less personal and business development. So I guess, you know, a certain degree of imposter syndrome is a good thing if you can balance that out with believing in yourself.

So I think that, you know, I still have days where, where, you know, I, I think that maybe I'm, I'm way over my head in something, you know, where, where I think that maybe I'm not capable, but then I remember that usually this is just because I contrast it, it contrasts that with like the high level of professionalism that I otherwise bring to the table.

So anything that's like, you know, that would still be really great is because I'm kind of a perfectionist and I kind of really push myself to, to do the best that I can and to provide the best experience for everybody. If there's, you know, something that's great, but kind of below my standards, that that's when I might, might start, you know, doubting myself again, but it's gotten very, very, much easier for me to remind myself that, look, you've done all this, you have this, this, this thing that you can be really proud of. Other people are confirming this for you. You've never had more positive, positive feedback than now. So it's easier and quicker to get out of potential imposter syndrome ruts now than it was, you know, two or five or 10 years ago. 

Rick Yvanovich: Interesting. Imposter syndrome. Typically, this is stereotypically, so it's a, a broad generalization. So let's take this with a pinch of salt. Perfectionists tend to have imposter syndrome, okay? And the problem with perfectionists is, I'm a perfectionist as well, unfortunately, when neglecting or ignoring the fact that good enough is actually good enough. Okay, that perfectionism can cause us, can stimulate maybe imposter syndrome and there's an upward positive spiral to imposter syndrome which is if we feel that we're not worthy, if we feel we're not good enough then what we tend to do is to get better.

We, you know, we work doubly, triply, quadruply hard to get even better, but you know, we're already good enough and like, okay, you know, maybe there's a very marginal, no, no return back up there. So it's, it's really accepting that good enough is good enough. 

Tim Butara: Yeah. If you're striving for perfect, then, then you might miss the good enough.

Rick Yvanovich: Absolutely. Absolutely. Now you've done 135 plus podcasts. Are you seeing any trends in the podcast that you're doing and the type of guests that you're interviewing? 

Tim Butara: Well, we started off with more technical topics and more, more development oriented topics. And then we kind of transitioned to more topics related to leadership, to business, to like topics such as, you know, such as imposter syndrome, you know, related to self actualization, change, just, you know, digital transformation in general or, or specific, you know, just maybe really popular episodes then turned out to be, you know, maybe something related to company culture and how that relates to digital. 

Over the past year, year and a half, obviously, you know, since, since the generative AI and broader AI explosion, we've had a lot, a lot of topics that were related or focused heavily on AI. You know, a lot of the times, even if it was, if like AI wasn't the angle or the title, we couldn't avoid not, you know, talking about AI. It was always like, you know, it's always, I think now it's kind of intrinsically connected with digital transformation. And so as Agile Digital Transformation, it's almost inevitable to talk about AI.

So this, this was, this has been the biggest trend over the past year. But there's so many different topics, so many different angles, you know, you might, you might talk with somebody who's an AI enthusiast, but they're kind of reserved about the potential of AI. And then, then you might have somebody who's like, who's worked with AI for half of their life, and they're really excited about AGI.

And it's really awesome to have these different perspectives and kind of also, not just provide awesome, awesome insights and awesome conversations to our audiences, but also learn a lot from these conversations myself. 

Rick Yvanovich: Wonderful. Now, as you introduced me, yes, my book is called Business as Unusual. So the question that I absolutely have to ask you is what is the most unusual experience that you've ever had in your career so far?

Tim Butara: Well, think about this a little bit. There were some times where, you know, where I had, I mentioned that I had a poor self confidence and actually one of the, one of the weirdest things was during one of my early, like full time jobs in tech, I was kind of every day I got the confirmation that yes, I wasn't good enough.

Every day I got the confirmation that I was doing something wrong, but nobody took the time to show me how to do it right. You know, they were just saying, oh yeah, you're doing it wrong. And then when I transitioned to like the next stage, it was like, oh yeah, this is going to be really difficult. This is going to be really tough. You'll have to step things up. But then nobody told me what to do. You know, nobody took, took one day, you know, to, to guide me through everything and to tell me what I was supposed to be doing every day, you know, on a daily basis, on a weekly basis. 

So that's, I think that also contributed heavily to, to, you know, not being able to get out of that, out of that rut for a long time, because, you know, I mentioned before that now I got confirmation from people that wasn't the case, but during that time. Like it was every single day or most days I left, I came home feeling like I wasn't enough. And, and that that's in some cases that's an understatement, you know, I usually had even darker thoughts, but then, you know, one of the, one of the interesting things, if, if I'm, if I were to connect two different unusual career aspects that were happening at the same time.

So I had the full time job at that tech company. And then I had a part time job during the weekends as a tourist guide here in Ljubljana, Slovenia. And it was mostly, you know, just like spontaneous tours, you know, it was rarely anything organized. So that meant that, you know, sometimes I would have one person on the tour or two people. And sometimes I would have like 15 or 20 people. And I was super in the zone, you know, I was telling them my own experiences from the city because I, I lived in the center of Ljubljana for a lot of my life and I have a lot of great memories from there. 

So I would tell people, you know, this is where I did this. This is where this happened. This is where my mom's band played like, like X years ago. 

Rick Yvanovich: Mom's band. 

Tim Butara: Yeah. Maybe that's a story for another episode. And, and anyway so yeah. So, you know, from Monday to Friday, I was, I was given feedback that I was doing, that I was doing a really poor job, that I was, that I was weak, that I wasn't good enough. And then during the weekend, I got confirmation from, from the tour guests that like, oh my God, you're such a natural at this, I can't believe that you've only been doing this for a month. You're so great. And so it was this weird balance of, you know. It was kind of tough to work, you know, a full time job in addition to like two to four two hour tours where you had to be really focused and really animating everybody during the weekend.

But I think it would have been much tougher if I just had that one full time job without the, without the positive feedback from the great, the great tour guests. So if anybody who was on one of my tours happens to be listening to this right now, thank you for giving me the confidence back then and the drive to to keep moving forward despite, you know feeling like the odds were totally against me. 

Rick Yvanovich: That's really interesting what you said that there are two things htat I want to highlight you know two insights from that really. The first is in your early career, in those tech jobs, it sounds like, and correct me if I'm wrong, you had no mentor.

Tim Butara: Yep. 

Rick Yvanovich: You had no guide. There was no one you could turn to for advice. It's like, you did wrong. Okay, fine. But what am I supposed to do right? I've got no idea. So that, that, that's very, that's very, very negative. That's a very, very, you know, downward spiral. So it sort of highlights the importance of having a mentor, doesn't matter who the mentor is, it doesn't matter where they are, whether it's in your team, your organization or not. But to have one it's a sounding board and it can you know help you re evaluate where you are, that's one thing.

The other one is if you're, if an individual is clearly unhappy in their job role, whatever it is, a balance can be found by finding something outside your job, maybe in, you know, your non work time or whatever you want to call it, that counterbalances the negativity maybe of your job. Okay. And as you said, you gave a perfect example of how to do that.

You found something outside your current role. Okay. In whatever that company was, whatever that job role was, in doing something else that you actually really really enjoyed and you got that acknowledgement and you got that positive feedback and that helped balance the situation and that is true I think for anybody in their career. You know if your current job role does not give you, okay, everything, there's some elements missing, you have to seek it elsewhere 

Tim Butara: Yeah.

Rick Yvanovich: You have to and then you can get, it's you as an individual, doing that that that balance so anyway. So that was the most unusual experience you've had in in your career. Okay, let's throw this career to the side. Don't throw it away. Just just put it aside What's your most unusual experience just in life, outside your job? 

Tim Butara: There are so many unusual experiences, but you know, to kind of, to kind of connect everything. One really positively unusual experience was this past summer where I, where I kind of broke through my comfort zone and, and kind of forced myself to go to some outdoor musical festivals that I was kind of really, really not into because I was always worried, you know, about all the potential things that could go wrong. And then I ended up going to an awesome, like, festival near a castle. It's called Floating Castle Festival here in Slovenia. And it was, you know, just, just the most amazing and mind blowing four days of my life where I had, like, transformational experiences. 

LIke, I don't know, reconciling and making amends with someone that, that I was really, you know, really had a grudge against for like over 10 years. And I was just kind of forced and forcibly put into a situation where I had no other choice but to, you know, make amends with them, stuff like that, you know, meeting people.

That was kind of the turning point where, where, you know, I realized that everything that I've been doing so far was on the right track. And it was unusual because it was, you have like, you have great days in your life. You have a few perfect days in your life, but that whole experience was just like every day, so much happened every day.

There were, there were so many perfect things. And you know, the, the things that were, that seemed like the worst thing to happen at that festival actually turned out to be the most amazing thing to happen at that festival. You know, like, like when, when I, when I learned that, that, you know, that person that I had a grudge against was going to be staying like right next to our tent. I was like, why, why is this happening? Why is this happening? But deep down, I knew, I knew, okay. I know why, I know why this is happening, but why is this happening? Why is this happening? But, you know, then I saw that, you know, everything just, just the universe kind of conspired to make things work as they did and, you know.

I've had like ever since, ever since coming back from that festival, my laughter and my laugh has been much more genuine, much more heartfelt, much, much louder than, you know, for the past 15 years or so. So it was transformational and it was unusual in that sense that, you know, I, it led to a lot of stuff and a lot of experiences that I already kind of resigned myself to never have again, but, you know, that breakthrough during the castle, you know, so it was also so, so now if you were to ask me about my castle, I would probably, I would probably have references to that, to the floating castle, to the stuff that happened there.

Yeah, that was probably one of the most unusual things and one of the most also noteworthy things to mention here that has happened to me, especially in the past year, because, you know, I'm also... I also have this belief that, that, you know, you, you have different lives throughout your life. Right? So, so, you know, maybe, maybe for this life that I'm living right now, this has been the most unusual experience, but maybe for some previous lives, I would choose some different experiences.

Rick Yvanovich: Okay, so two things there. So you're in a tent I think the person in the tent next door is someone that you have a problem with... 

Tim Butara: Yeah.

Rick Yvanovich: A very very historic one. So I guess something positive came out of it because you know, if you had ended up trying to kill him or something, he probably wouldn't be on the podcast, you're locked up. So did you reconcile? 

Tim Butara: Yes, we, we had normal talks, we shared a laugh together and now every time I see that person, I'm actually happy to see them and like, like the last time they didn't see me and I saw them and I stepped up to them and I said hi and I shook shook their hand and everything. And so I really like.

Now it's, it's not just that, okay, I'm okay with this person, it's like, oh, I actually have this certain degree of satisfaction and happiness when I see them and when I talk to them. So this has been wonderful. I have, I have my best friend actually to thank, thank for this because he was kind of the one who, who, whose mishap was responsible for that person setting up their tent right next to ours. 

So a very valuable life lesson right there that some of the most fulfilling moments and experiences in your life come from mistakes, you know, come from somebody, some, somebody making something that, that, that is totally screwing up the moment, so to speak. But then if you're, if you're confident enough, if you're capable enough, you can, you're, you have the potential to turn that around. And actually this is a perfect circle back to the beginning of the conversation. You need to be your own architect of change. You know, no matter what life throws at you, you, you're, you're the one who, who can, who is able to dictate how this situation will play out. You know, I could have, I could have, you know, doubled down on the grudge. But I just, I just, you know, I had this moment where I had this, this huge, huge feeling of empathy for this person. And I think that that kind of turned things around. 

Rick Yvanovich: Okay. You brought up the, you know, that's it. That's architect of change. You know, every day our actions, big or small shape our future. So something happened, arch enemy number one is next door. What am I, how am I going to react to it? Okay. Or so you're going to react. Which is, go and try and kill him or something, which, no, that's not supposed to happen. Or, you can pause, and work out what your response is going to be.

Okay? And it sounds like your response was, okay, let it go. Forgive them for whatever it was. You know, go shake their hands. They're just another person at the festival. What's the problem? 

Tim Butara: And my life has been better off since then for it. And, and so, so to maybe to have some final words to everybody listening right now, you know, going beyond your comfort zone in such a way is more than just worthwhile. It's necessary. And as Rick said, you need to be the architect of your own life, the architect of change. You need to be the catalyst of change. You said in the beginning that we all have the potential for this, but you said in our original conversation, not just the potential, but the obligation to architect your own reality. So, you know, I'm, I'm testifying here as proof of how, you know, you're able to turn things around if you commit yourself to it. 

Rick Yvanovich: Wonderful. I couldn't have said it any better. Now the other thing you talk to music festivals, so I have to ask you, all right, what would be your walk on song? 

Tim Butara: Walk on stage song?

Rick Yvanovich: Yeah. 

Tim Butara: If I were to perform? 

Rick Yvanovich: Yeah, they're just even on your podcast, you don't have music introducing you, but if you could have music to introduce you. Yeah, this is Tim What would that walk on theme song be? 

Tim Butara: Well, it would either be one of my own songs or it could be... do you know Bella Fleck and the Flecktones?

Maybe? 

Rick Yvanovich: No, no, you can try and sing it if you want. 

Tim Butara: No, it's, it's, it's an instrumental. 

Rick Yvanovich: Or that get, or that put all your followers off. 

Tim Butara: But we can, you know, for anybody who's interested we'll put a link to, to my favorite performance of that song in the show notes so that you can get a little bit of a taste for it.

And it's basically, it's a live version that I love the most. Because, like, it's, the recording is so well done, the, the melody is so positive, you know, it's basically like the, the main instruments are, are the banjo and like the bass virtuoso, Victor Wooten, and a really awesome saxophone player. And it all just, you know, blends together so perfectly.

And then, you know, after everybody gets their solo and after everybody does their, their unique thing, they return, you know, they circle back to the original theme of the song. And the audience just goes wild and everybody just starts clapping. And like, I get such a feeling of fulfillment from that. And so, so, you know, it would either be that like a theme song of my life or something like that, or it would be like the songs I make.

Probably if you ask my best friend he would have some other ideas like like there's this he says that there's this certain aspect of music that's like this Tim aspect you know that's like a lot of the songs that I sent to him or that i make it's like yeah I know why you, Tim, you particular person love this particular song. 

Rick Yvanovich: Okay so maybe that's a Tim tune or something that you need to, to, to bring on the podcast. So when it comes on, everybody goes wild, the crowd goes wild. 

Tim Butara: Well, you know, coincidentally, I did choose the music for the intro for the podcast. You know, that was, I really loved doing that. So, so I think that it's, it's also kind of, it's in line, like the intro for the intro music for the podcast is a Tim themed music.

Rick Yvanovich: Ooh. Okay. So, all right. Now, you've shared an awful lot today. I really appreciate that and, and, and I hope all your listeners or our listeners really appreciate that as well. Now, you've obviously been through, through a journey, you know, finding yourself, building up your confidence, changing, transforming, all of that kind of stuff.

What is one piece of advice that you would give to someone just starting out in their career, what would it be? 

Tim Butara: Keep going forward, keep improving yourself, keep working on yourself and like, do so while trying to discover your life purpose so that you, you know, which direction you're supposed to go in so that you're not like, like Alice in Wonderland, to use your previous metaphor. So that that would be the one thing I guess. 

Rick Yvanovich: Wonderful, wonderful. And all right, I'll, I'll ask one more question before actually I'll give you your podcast back to you.

So what's one question that you wish I'd have asked you, but I failed to ask you? I didn't ask you. And whatever that question was, how would you have answered it? 

Tim Butara: Well, we talked a little bit about flow state. I think that, like, I was kind of prepared to talk a little bit more about it, but we, we already moved to other, to other things. So one, one thing that I kind of was missing maybe from this discussion, if I have, if I absolutely had to choose something. It would be like the relationship between the flow state and going beyond your comfort zone and like, like if that is possible. And, and I think that, you know, I think you need some degree of comfort to be in the flow state.

But you need to go beyond your comfort zone to discover where you should direct your flow state because, you know, it's obviously that much easier to get into this, to get into a state of flow and to achieve a state of flow if you're doing what you love doing, if you love, if you're doing what, if you're, if you're doing something that aligns with your mission, with your life purpose.

So, yes, flow can only occur once you're feeling, you know, once you're feeling at ease, once you're feeling confident within yourself, it's very hard to get into a flow state if you're suffering from imposter syndrome or something, but you do have to suffer maybe a bit from imposter syndrome to find your flow and to, so it's, it's a weird relationship, I guess, but there definitely is one.

And I just think that you can't have one without the other, but also, you know, a flow state will maybe make it easier for you once you're outside of your comfort zone and they play off each other, I'd say. 

Rick Yvanovich: Wonderful. I mean, you just sort of summed it up very, very well. So there's just a final thing that I want to say before I hand your show back to you.

And it's the thought that, remember, we're not just participants in this ever changing world, this crazy world that we may be in, but we are these architects, we are shaping the course of our lives, our careers. You've just explained it there. Okay. And it's not just our own lives. It's the world around us.

Okay, but you know, look what you did with the high school reunion, you know, you're impacting all these other people. So, you know, I really wish to encourage, continue to encourage people just embrace the change but define it. Okay, rather than just react and adapt to it, be that catalyst in your business as unusual world Feel free to reach out to me, okay, because I'm really really interested in hearing about your journeys. So Tim, it's your show. You can have it back now 

Tim Butara: Thank you, Rick. Thank you for stealing it in the first place. I really enjoyed being on the other side, you know, still being the host, but getting interviewed by the guest. This was a completely new experience for me. And in the context of going beyond my comfort zone, this was definitely a step beyond my comfort zone.

But I think that, I think that we had an awesome conversation. I think that even though I was, it's mostly focusing on sharing my own personal experiences and personal stuff, still listeners will be able to get a lot from this. And so really thank you, Rick, for the great questions, for being such a great interviewer.

And well, I guess we'll have to do another episode where, where we both interview each other or something. We'll have a talk about that. 

Rick Yvanovich: Yeah, we can do that. That will be another business as unusual thing. 

Tim Butara: Awesome. Awesome. Thank you so much, rick. This was a great note to finish on. And you know, to our listeners. That's all for this episode. Have a great day everyone and stay safe. 

Outro:
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